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Reprinted for safekeeping from View Magazine April 3, 2003
eye weekly 11.02.00
April 3 2003. Original full "uncut" interview from View Magazine between Rick Taylor and Dave McGhire
DAVE McGHIRE, QUITS THE FORGOTTEN REBELS AFTER 22 YEARS!
Fans are stunned by the news, but the decision was not made lightly. Here now is the Q and A. Daves tells his reasons for leaving and some of the shocking untold Forgotten Rebels history.
RT:
When was the first time you met Mickey? Do you have any amusing stories about the early days?
DM:
I don't really remember the first time I met Mickey clearly at all, he says I stole a pair of pants for him from zeller's or something, maybe so, but I can't remember. The first time I clearly remember talking to Mickey he was being refused entry at a bar in Hamilton and I was already drinking inside at the rip age of 14. I recognized him from parties and such and went and talked to him for a bit. He never did get in though. This would have been sometime around 1978 I guess, and within the next year or so I started as a roadie for the Rebels. Regarding band stories though; I remember reading Led Zepplins "Hammer of the gods" after being in the Rebels for a few years and thought how fucking boring it was, my stories from this band are way better than that crap. I think they left out 99% of the good stories from that book. Myself, to many stories to pick just one and you'd need a whole book to do them any justice, bomb scares, death threats, gigs, girls, booze, deaths, drugs, parties, travel, and yea ,music.
RT:
What was it that you liked the best about The Rebels before you joined? What was the worst thing about the band?
DM:
Best thing: They sounded dangerous and that made em cool.
Worst thing: Only 20 people thought the same as I did..
RT:
How did you join the Forgotten Rebels originally?
DM:
It was now around late 1979 or early 1980. The band had been around for I guess just over 2 years and I was now a roadie and friend hanging around. Anyhow I joined during the "Hollywood" record release shows and I stayed for the next 22 years. We only changed guitar players once from then on but bass player's are another story, what is it with bass players? Fast forward to 1981. At this time the band would practice at Jim Sharky's place on Sterling Ave. in Westdale. The "Hollywood" album was finally recorded with Rob on drums and we did a couple of record release shows and up comes our first ever gig in the USA and Rob couldn't get across the border. I had to fill in. I was successful I guess as they asked me to become a full Rebel that night and I stayed till this day. ( I actually left the band over a drunken disagreement for a brief period in 1984 but the band asked to come back ). This Rebels incarnation was the "Hollywood" band and it lasted until 1985 when John Welton exited. This album has 2 different covers by the way, one with myself "a live cover" and one with Rob but I can't remember why. When I originally joined we were making maybe $250.00 a show for the whole band. The Rebels didn't draw many people to shows back then ( maybe around 50 people or so average ) but to be honest neither did any punk rock bands at this time. There was no real exposure to the masses yet. Some people say these were the " good ol days", but they weren't to us.
RT:
What do you think you personally added to the band?
DM:
Songs, Videos, Producing, Band business, Merchandise, Drumming, Driving force and oh yea, I am also AKA: "Rebel corp." At long last, I have to finally Break the band covenant for this one.
In the very beginning my first addition to the Rebels was my belief in them and punk rock music in general. I had a " four on the floor " style with allot of power and that's what makes a good punk rock drummer. My first input to the Rebels was to make the band realize we had to stop playing anywhere and everywhere, to take it more seriously, we had to make the gigs events! We had to actually stop playing to achieve this. We were playing smaller clubs at this time like the "Turning point" in Toronto or "Cedar lounge" in London. After we stopped playing things finally started to grow and within a year or two we were finally playing bigger clubs like the "El-mocambo" and "Larry's Hideaway". We were finally making some coin and playing a lot bigger shows. This proved critical as the band would have dissolved by then if we weren't gaining something financially. I have strived behind the scenes to keep the Rebels true to our punk rock roots over the years but what fans are not aware of is that Mickey has always wanted to go in a different direction and for the most part, refused to tour. This has always been our "Achilles heal".
SONG WRITING:
Song writing was an important input of mine second only to Mickeys, although no fans knew of the extent. Every Rebel has contributed ideas to songs. But the only " song writers " in the band for the last 22 years are firstly Mickey and secondly myself. I learned a lot from watching Mickey write in the early days (He really is a brilliant song writer and he loves to make fun of everything). In the Rebels we split royalties and credits equally for a few reasons; so just the best songs win, no money arguments, and all members look like they write as this is better for the image. The first Rebels song I initiated was "Bomb Kadafee /Russia". I came to practice with the chorus / intro riff I had "stolen". Mickey liked it and then wrote the verses and we all came up with the melodies. At the printing /pressing plant there was a mix up and Mickey got all the credit for that one though ( we all know honest printing errors happen ). From that point on my song contributions grew allot. In the beginning, my contributions of 3 or 4 songs per record grew till on the last album the majority of tracks on it were mostly mine. No fans realize this as I wrote the songs like Mickey would have, but I didn't care "too much". The actual songs come basically finished from either Mickey or Myself, we throw em into the group, each member adds what they want and were done. If we are jamming them a couple of weeks later then they were keepers, if not they were crap and be done with em. We never took song rejection personally, at least I didn't. I always let Mickey rewrite the words to my songs if he wanted to as he has to sing and believe in them. Some he changed and some he didn't. I also sang a couple of songs on our latest record. What mattered to me was the Forgotten Rebels as a whole, period.
Little detour story hear; I remember when Mickey and Chris Houston were writing Surfin on Heroin, they were jamming it together and called me in to hear it, there was just the 3 of us at that point and I was just there as a friend, Chris had written the chorus already. I think they did word play back and forth to get the verses. Between em they completed it (this should solve any rumors as i'm always hearing Chris taking 100% credit for the song). Chris's chorus obviously was the important part as it was first and the song would never have been without it, but without Mickey's " junky beach" and all the rest it would have gone no where. They created it together; an underground masterpiece. The same thing happened on our last album with one of my songs "Dirty daddy / Hockey nite". I came in with all the music & melodies done but only a few of the words. It already was about a dirty ol man but in the chorus I only had "Dirty daddy wants to feel all right" over n over. Mickey says YEA! Dirty daddy says its Hockey nite, laughs, and finishes the words. Perfect, Song complete!
BAND BUSINESS:
Most bands although "democratic" need a member to make daily decisions and after John Welton left the group that fell upon myself more and more over time, mostly by default. For the last 15 years I ended up doing all the band business like the road managing duties on the tours and did the money shit after the gigs. Between myself and our managers ( Paul then Donny ) we got our record deals and basically planned when and where to play ( although we never toured even close to as much as I would have liked, i.e.: our Achilles heel ). This was also Johnny Ramones position in the Ramones. Him and I talked about this a couple of times in the mid 1990's; this position is a hard one to be in. You have to deal carefully with Egos and different personalities but ultimately you have to do what is best for the band, no individual is more important. This results sometimes in resentment from other members. So its a pretty hard position to be in. I stayed in this position till I left the Rebels.
PRODUCING:
Recording an Album was always disappointing for us. No producer ever got close to what we wanted to sound like. I suggested to the band to let myself finally have a go on "Criminal Zero". Seemed to work great as most people say this was the first Rebels album anybody said " sounded " good. I regret I didn't try it earlier though. I have since produced 4 other bands so far and also the latest Rebels Album "Nobodys Hero's".
I need to make a personal point on producing here:
As the saying goes, a job worth doing is worth doing well. When a band makes a record they are making a permanent statement to the World. The band and its fans will have to live with the results forever. So the only acceptable effort from any member is 110%. As producer your job is to get the best that each member has to give and then push them even further. You are not looking for the perfect note though you are looking for that magic energy that only rears its head rarely and you had better have the record button on. To this day I still get some whining from members about how hard it is ( you know who you are ). My question to them is, why are you in a band then? If its that hard to give your best efforts for a lousy weeks time then just fuck off ! Our fans and this band deserve nothing less.
All members provide counter balance:
While we were just finishing a tour in the US for the album "Surfin on Heroin" Mike Mirabella our longtime guitar player quit the band. After almost a decade with Mike we were now in search of a guitar player. We were lucky to get some one I had played with previously in a band many years before and had since remained friends with. I was very happy when Jeff Campbell actually joined the band sometime in 1989. Different people grow in different directions and the Rebels camp was starting again to waver as Mickeys side wanted a mellower " politically correct " version, and my side as I still wanted loud angry punk rock. Jeff thought the same way as me and this is how the Rebels stayed mostly true till now. Our side won. This battle is still going on to this day.
VIDEOS:
Our first videos were crap! They got a bit better as we went along but like the records they just didn't reflect what we visually wanted as a band. As luck would have it after sobering up, I ended up with a very lucrative career in the Film business. I have been doing special effects on TV shows, commercials and movies for over 10 years now. So with a million dollar film computer at my ready I also tackled the video side of things. At the time I made the "Hammer" and "Buried Alive" Videos for the band they would have cost around $150 Grand or more. I did this for a cost to the band of only $5 grand but at a cost to myself of many hundreds of hours and blood n sweat. The band got great videos for basically no money. I have just recently finished 2 new videos (after again lots more personal time and effort ) "The American in me" and "No place to hide" from our last album and they really make you feel what it is actually like being at a Rebels show. They are great videos. A couple of members didn't appreciate any of this extra hard work and there attitude in know small part lead to myself finally quitting.
MERCHANDISE:
I designed all our merchandise for the last 22 years. From condoms to t-shirts. I started making the T-shirts, buttons and stickers etc. for the band around 1981 out of my house. I would design em, screen em and bring em to the shows for the band. If you bought anything Rebels in the last 2 plus decades, I made it. We still run 5 or 6 t-shirt designs to this day that I designed back then, and newer stuff.
REBEL CORP:
Album covers, booklets, Posters. Any CD or Tour related Artwork: ( AKA: Rebel Corp.) Well again no one else would do it so I created all the poster designs, logo's and images etc. we have used in the last couple of decades. I also have designed five of the Forgotten Rebels album / CD covers and booklets. I wanted it all to look good for the fans and ourselves. I used the name "Rebel Corp" so my name was not in the credits so much. Band first, right?
RECENT / UPCOMING STUFF:
I put Mickey on the cover of our last CD as I thought it was best for the bands "image" and suggested "Nobodys Hero's" ( misspelled of course) as a seemingly appropriate title that also pays tribute to one of my favorite bands "Stiff Little Fingers". At the time I quit, I was half way through a DVD I was making for the band and our fans and I was also part way through compiling and producing our first "Live" Rebels CD I had recorded over the last 2 years at different shows. I had also just completed creating a bunch of new web site stuff and was ready to give it all to James (our web site guy) pre-made and ready to go. It actually had Jeff as the main photo on the flash menu and included, our videos, around 50+ never seen cool band pictures, and a lot of free mp3s etc for the fans. So I was quite busy "behind" the Rebels front, as usual.
I have said this many times, but all that really matters is what was best for the band, not the individual! All these many years I was quite fine behind the scenes and behind the drums doing all this extra unpaid and un-credited creative stuff for my band. Its all fine when your work is appreciated and you have a cohesive view towards your goals. But the night I quit, all my hard work and efforts were now being taken for granted, well fuck that!
Until this writing, only the band, crew and very close associates new how much song writing, effort, drive and creative direction I put into this band over all these 22 years. As you can finally see I wasn't just the "fucking drummer"! But now I am out and I don't have to worry about hurting fragile egos or the "image of a band" any more. So in answer to your question, yes I added quite considerably to the Rebels success. For fans this information will come as a complete surprise, I did my job well then. In our very earliest days it was a band effort and for along time it was fun, but for the last 15 years or so, more and more, it was like we were going down the road in a car and I was the only one putting gas in and fixing the engine, so it had to end sooner then later. Excepting live gigs, it was a band yes, but definitely not a band effort. It took allot more than our first 3 albums to create the Rebels myth. It took all this aforementioned work and much more, including 6 more albums and our longevity to really create it.
RT:
22 years is a long time, do you have any personal high points for the band?
DM:
The highest point really is having people like our music. From fans to fellow musicians, We really seemed to hit a influential chord somehow. We were lucky. I can hear our influences in some of the bands today. That makes me very happy. I guess the biggest surprise though really was our longevity. Since we never " sold out" we did seem to garner a more loyal fan base than most, also the rest of the world seemed to come around to our style as punk rock grew in popularity. We were very lucky to have the fans we did though. We also got to play with most of our favorite bands over the years, which was real cool for us. Unfortunately, today's "Punk Rock" has lost all its danger in the process and quit frankly I view most modern so called "punk rock" bands like I viewed REO Speed wagon in the 1970's ! Other high points were more personal like meeting and touring with my idols like Ian Hunter ( Mott the Hoople) and Mick Ronson (David Bowie / Spider from mars). Mick Ronson actually taught me at sound check how to play "Ziggy stardust" and "All the young dudes" on the actual Les Paul guitar he recorded those classic tunes with on the records. Tour buses (those are big time fun)! Playing and hanging out with the Ramones and many, many other cool bands. I was actually the Gabba Gabba Hey guy" The Pin head " at a Ramones show with the suit and mask, it was cool. Got to meet at least half the music industry at one time or another.
RT:
Lowest points:
DM:
My last show with the band would be the lowest.
Although it was fun to create allot of the stuff I mentioned, sometimes it just needed to be done. To be honest, from 1990 onward Jeff was the only member to ever help myself in anything " band related " and for the most part we saw very much eye to eye on things. Unfortunately, his help and band interest had disappeared completely in recent years and we now apparently see things in totally the opposite. So everything seemed over around 1997/98 and I actually quit the band at this point in time over disagreements with our management among others. At this point the band didn't seem to want to make another record or even do shows any more. I only came back under the condition that we would make another record and tour. So late in 1998, myself and Donny (our manager ) then went out and spent a month or two finding the band a record deal. I had written a bunch of songs, and this led to us recording "Nobodys Hero's" and doing a couple of European tours that followed (our "achilles heal" actually gave in). The real weird thing is this, coincidentally, timing and dedication has finally paid off and the money earnings of the band have grown considerably since this time. But now a days to my disappointment, this is the sole reason some members play.
Funny lowest points;
On our 1st ever full US tour, 2 weeks in and no money to even get a motel room. We were sleeping under the San Francisco Bay bridge in a van. It seemed to start to rain, the rain turned into a storm and we kept hearing it raining hard all night, when we awoke we found maybe 2 feet of bird shit on the roof ! Also Twice, I woke up in emergency getting my stomach pumped from alcohol poisoning and very near death. Second time was the charm though, I quit drugs and daily heavy drinking around 1987. Well mostly, Rock n Roll is a hard life!
RT:
What about member changes?
DM:
The various incarnations of the Rebels in that first 2 or 3 year period lasted only lasted six months to a year at best so every album was a different band with no constant except Mickey. All the member changes actually happened way back then. We have had only 5 member changes over the past 22 years. Given the time span we are talking it's very hard to stay committed that long to anything, let alone a band. I'm still a little pissed that people think we changed members so much. Fans even think its Mickey band. We unfortunately helped this misconception along for a few reasons though. For the first 5 years or so we all did "band" interviews equally but we found Mickeys always the most entertaining. So we made a " band " or as I call it now a " bad in retrospect " judgment call to let Mickey do all the interviews over the years since then. This more than anything has back fired on us, as we lost the "Band" image along the way, singling out Mickey while enhancing the always changing members myth. Some members even changed their names on the records ( myself 2 times ) but we thought the fans would get it. Wrong ! The latest in a long list of many reasons was the re-issue fuck up of the first EP on CD where some " record idiot " listed every "tom, dick and harry" that even jammed with the band as former members, but never were. The only real Rebels are the ones on the records. All this and many others " screw ups" when combined, grew over the years till finally culminating in the appearance of us being "Mickeys band". For our first decade or more we were looked at as a band, but know longer. People think its "Mickeys band" and the truth is irrelevant. Perception is allot more powerful than reality and people will believe what they want. Obviously that pissed me off royally. The actual truth is if we were the "Mickey band" we would have been playing only 1 show a year, doing 50's cover songs between bad jokes and probably not playing much punk rock at all.
RT:
Any achievements you are really proud of?
DM:
I was part of a good band and I am most proud of our music. It was fun most of the time and we finally got to see most of the world for free. But it was allot of hard work. I think we made a lot of good songs over the years that I hope will continue to stand the test of time. And yea, some real stinkers to!
RT:
What's the greatest memory of Dave and The Forgotten Rebels?
DM:
My greatest memories of the band would be the nights you get on a stage and the crowd would cheer so loudly when we were getting into position i'd actually have to cover my ears it hurt so much. Nights like that were rare and just pure magic. It was the fans and those kinds of rushes that I played for.
RT:
Your media announcement of your departure is very candid and very sad but people will be asking questions about your motivation for leaving. The release said:
"Mickey aside, I am no longer willing to work hard behind the scenes for the benefit of other members that do not have any appreciation for the work being done. I am greatly saddened by having to take this step as the Rebels were a BIG part of my life's work. But in the end, a band is like a family and differences in opinion do happen and some are irreconcilable. Therefore, I am left with no choice because of my belief's ...it is now time to leave. I have enjoyed my partnership with Mickey and I will miss very much making music together. The Forgotten Rebels aside, Mickey and myself are and will remain friends for life and this is much more important to both of us.
"I do wish Mickey and the Rebels the best in all future endeavors."
DM:
I had been thinking that maybe we should pack it in for quite sometime really, while we were still good. I don't want to become the "Geritol Rebels". I could also see that some members were starting to do it for different reasons than we used to and it was no longer a priority to the others except in the money. But overall, I quit that night because sometimes its just easier to give up than fight. It's been a very long time and I was sick of doing everything for ungrateful, shortsighted members. Maybe if I was a newer member that just showed up, played and got paid it would have been ok. But I believed to much in the band, and all that extra work I put in, and the stress that comes with it, kept mounting, years and years of it, till finally, I cracked !
What happened was this. My view is a band has to continue to make records, Videos, Web sites etc. to stay a Real Band. That night, out of left field, half of the band actually stated they no longer think this is important. I did a hell of a lot of work recently on 2 brand new videos for the Rebels as I mentioned and I also had created the new web site stuff. The guys didn't think any of this was worth doing, that the videos and the web site were not important stuff any more. This was a slap in the face to myself, our fans and the Forgotten Rebels. We do it for the right reasons or just fuck off! All these many years of struggling up until that moment "we" or at least myself, had been doing it for the basically the right reasons, to build a truthful name and have fun. In that instant we no longer had a cohesive view as a band. The other members no longer want to build the band or even try. They want to just take as much money as they can and run. It was never about the money, that's just foolish. Because of this the Forgotten Rebels finally became their own worst enemy and truly ended that night to me. I have no wish to continue ad infinitum in a charade of the former band with any false members. They will continue for the money and of that I am sure, but all the truth will be gone. Just so the fans know; Mickey agreed with myself about the videos and web site being important for the fans and the band, so he still has heart. But I came to the overall realization very quickly that even if Mickey and myself do think these steps are important, the other guys do not. And I am no longer willing to work hard behind the scenes for the benefit of " any member " that does not have any appreciation for the work being done. Period ! You can only do what you believe in and in that split second I know longer believed in the other guys. If I was younger I would have dealt with this much differently! But after a very long 22 years, I just put my arms in the air and gave up. It really did hurt though, I told em that was it for me, played the show and left. ( I am still trying to get the knifes out of my back). I fought long and hard on behalf of this band and now actually regret members will continue to gain from my past overly generous efforts. But, In the end, Mickey is still the key no matter how much I contributed to the bands success. So if Mickey wants to go on "ad infinitum" with the "false idols" then so be it. I personally think a Mickey solo project would be a much smarter step, and save the band name from a slow death. For myself, with no true meaning and goal, it's not worth doing just for the money. And I don't need it.
RT:
If your departure is somewhat amicable, will there be a farewell concert?
DM:
No. Time heals some things so you can never say never in this world. You have to remember, Mickey, myself and Jeff were both friends and band brothers. Even shaun the newest member, I was friends with first. We would have turned out different people with different lives without each others influences. Some of us really spent a life time together. These friendships were much more important to myself than the band. This is my biggest regret, because now as both friends and Rebels they have cheapened the band, thereby robbing me of something I believed in that was a big part of my life's work. They have disappointed me greatly. Obviously there is some very bad blood. Some friendships may survive and others may not, only time will tell. I will miss playing with my friends and I will miss the fans that enjoyed our music. I will miss it all greatly. It didn't end the way it should have. I'm glad to be out though, It was time.
RT:
As you say, you'll continue your longtime friendship with Mickey. What's the greatest thing you like about Mickey as a musician, as a punk, as a Rebel, as your friend?
DM:
As a musician: The guy is a true genius. I have never met anyone as talented as he is at song writing, he is a true "Rock Star" in the classic sense of the word and no one even comes close to having his stage presence.
As a punk: He was one of the first, just listen to the 1st EP ! nuff said.
As a Rebel: Just advise, Its always hard to give something up you love, but all things must end as I found out. As a friend, I hope he to soon realizes that when there's no goal or heart, it is time to put the name away, with Honor. Before it starts to rot.
As my Friend: We have had our ups and downs over the years like any long relationship does and I will always love him as a brother. He has such an unusual outlook on everything, he is definitely one in a million for sure. His personality is what makes him the stage star he is and no one anywhere has his brilliant sick sense of humor.
RT:
Any final words? Are you going to continue making music? Are there projects or work we should know about?
DM:
First, I hope that after reading this interview our true fans will see past the pre-conceived image of this band, warts and all. Realize there were allot of untold truths and some finally needed to be said. Really, very little was as it appeared. Anyhow, people can learn from mistakes if they want and hopefully the remaining Rebels will also, and start by doing it for the right reason again. I don't see it happening, but I hope so. Up until this "most recent of times" we were the real thing and I hope the fans will still at least believe in our past stuff. For myself it's just to deep, but I still care greatly about our name and our music's heritage. Speaking of the music, never say never. But, my heart and soul and over half my life was spent in the Rebels and that's enough for me. If I find a bunch of guys who want to form a band for the right reasons then, maybe. I still have a bunch of songs that were ready for the Rebels to hear but I can use them else where now. Maybe i'll give some of them to James our web site guy as free MP3s to give to the fans. Hey I got an idea, maybe the "live" Rebels cd will end up as free MP3s also. I'd rather give em away as it was never about the money anyhow. Yep, maybe. Anyhow, I like writing and producing so I am going to spend more time on getting more of my stuff published and recorded by other bands now. I also have another band to produce coming up very soon. As far as my other gig, I am very happy with my career in the Film business ( pays the mortgage ). I love it almost as much as music because all I do is draw and blow things up (but no free beer on the rider). Outside of music, summers coming and I race and collect sports cars for fun. Also my girlfriend and I are taking off for a couple of months to go to greece later this year and we are currently house shopping again in Toronto. So I am pretty full up right now.
I rather like not having to worry about band stuff right now but I know i'll probably miss it eventually. This is the first time I haven't worried about the band since I was basically 16. It is a little weird still, its a new feeling, so far so good. I want to say thanks especially to all the fans, It has been a life time worth of fun at least!
Punk Rock, it's in the blood!